Interview with National Security Agency
December 5, 2005

INTERVIEWER>  Hello?  _____, this is _____.  _____ gave me your number and said that he had spoken to you and you said it would be o.k. to call you with some questions.  Is now a convenient time for you?

NSA>  Hi _____.  Sure, but before we start, I have to let you know that all of our telephone conversations are recorded and I might need to refer you to our Public and Media Affairs office.  

INTERVIEWER>  That's fine.

NSA>  Good.  Also, _____ said you were a lawyer and trying to analyze some documents about UFO's or aliens or something.  How can I help?
  
INTERVIEWER>  Well, there is this story I read on the internet and it's somewhat fascinating.  Supposedly, there's this group of guys who claim to have been a part of a secret government project in the '06's to have an exchange program with an extraterrestrial civilization. [pause]  Have I lost you yet?

NSA>  [Laughs]  No.

INTERVIEWER>  Oh.  Before I go on, is it o.k. if I take notes or record this.  I would like to make a transcript of our conversation.  I'm sort of doing some research.  This is purely not work-related.  I would like to post your answers in an online discussion forum, if that's all right.

NSA>  [Laughs] No problem.  But before you put anything online, our Public Affairs guy has to approve it.  Send your notes, or whatever, to my email and I'll get it approved for you.  My email is _____.

INTERVIEWER>  Thanks.  If you like, while we talk I can email you the links to some of the documents I've been looking at.  Would that be ok?  [strange noise on phone] um.  Do we have have bad connection?  Or is that noise on your end.

NSA> Sorry about the chime.  We have it on all of the unsecured lines around here.  Sure send the links.  Are they about Roswell?

INTERVIEWER>  No.  Why?  Do you guys get bugged about Roswell a lot?

NSA> I don't know.  The "foy-ah" [assume FOIA] office would take care of all that.  No, I see a lot of shows on cable about UFO's and Roswell a lot lately.  I thought maybe somebody had something new.

INTERVIEWER>  Yeah.  I've noticed a lot more shows about UFO's lately, too.  I think that sci-fi is coming back to TV, with "Lost" being so popular.  You say you watch the UFO shows?  What do you think of them?

NSA> [Laughs]  I probably should take the fifth on that one [laughs again]  Seriously, yeah.  I've watched some of them.  I think they're pretty interesting.

INTERVIEWER>  Yeah.  I think that's what's got me doing this.  Those stories are pretty interesting and make you wonder about the things people say.  Like this guy that's claiming he was involved with a Project Serpo.

NSA>  Serpo?  S-e-r-p-o?

INTERVIEWER>  Yes.  I just emailed you a group of links.  One of them is to serpo.org.  These guys setup a website to release their information about this Project.

NSA> Where did he get his information?

INTERVIEWER>  He claims he has a debriefing manual from the project.  Something like three-thousand pages of debriefing from people that spent years living on an alien planet.

NSA> Uh. [pause]

INTERVIEWER>  Don't worry.  I'm not asking you whether you know anything about this.  Actually, it's not the information itself that I want help with.  What I'm trying to figure out is whether these guys can release this information legally.  Are you able to pull up a link?  It would help if I could give you an example.

NSA> Sure.  Ok, yeah.  I can't talk about intelligence information.  I wasn't sure where you were going with that.

INTERVIEWER>  Yeah, I know.  What I'm interested in are whether there is any way these guys could be releasing this information, assuming it's true, without breaking any laws.

NSA>  What do you mean?  If a project was classified, you can't tell people about it.  Maybe I don't understand.

INTERVIEWER>  That's ok.  I think you do.  That may be the answer I'm looking for, but let me explain more and see what you think.

NSA> O.k.

INTERVIEWER>  Suppose these guys worked on a secret government project back in the 60's.  They are now releasing simply that the project existed.  Is that ok?

NSA>  No.  Ok.  Lets back up a sec and talk about how projects can be classified.  This varies a lot between agencies, but I'll use the Navy as an example, that's what I know and I'd rather talk about that than NSA classification systems.  Some of those are classified and I can't discuss them anyway.

NSA>  Ok, so lets say the Navy had a secret project they wanted to work on.  If it's a "project" [said with emphasis], then it's coming down from the top.  It's got a budget and all that and a lot of guys in suits have signed-off on it.  Since it's a project, all of the documents from that project receive the same initial classification as the project itself.  Lets assume it's classified [redacted].  All of the documents are classified [redacted] as well.  That makes the project itself and any documents that are created by and for the project are classified [redacted].

INTERVIEWER>  Ok, so the actual project is classified.  So no one can mention that they know that the project exists.  That's secret too?

NSA>  Yeah.

INTERVIEWER>  Ok, so have you been able to pull up that link on Project Serpo?

NSA>  Yeah.  This is wild.

INTERVIEWER>  Could you scroll down to his posting number 5?  That's one I'd like you to see.

NSA> Sure.  Sec. [pause] O.k.  Ah.  O.k.  What does he mean by "proper sactions from past officials"?  This doesn't make any sense.

INTERVIEWER>  First, in your opinion, is there a reason why the name of the project would be displayed, but he would blank-out the name of the group that oversaw it?

NSA>  No, I would think the project itself would be classified.  The part about the group name might make sense, but I'm not sure I should comment on that.  I think there are instances when the name of a group could remain classified, if it's part of an ongoing project.  Have you checked to see if Project Serpo has been declassified at any level?

INTERVIEWER>  I can't find any FOIA documents on it.  But is it possible that it's been declassified but the documents haven't been made public yet?

NSA>  Yeah, well sort of.  The documents become public when they're declassified.  So many documents get declassified that they can sit in some agency's archives for a long time before anyone asks for them, so nobody knows they're there unless they go looking for them.  Agencies are supposed to publish a list of declassified document every year, though, so they can't hide them.

INTERVIEWER>  Ok, so unless the project has been declassified, this person is not legally releasing the name of the Project?

NSA>  Definitely, no.

INTERVIEWER>  So all the stuff he writes about having a supporter that will help them with their release of information?  What do you make of that?

NSA>  If they mean that they have someone that can help them coordinate document declassification with each agency involved, then maybe... but.  [pause, typing heard over the phone] Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here.  I wouldn't know exactly what to make of it.  The temperature on an alien planet...  baby critters playing soccer?  Yeah... If this were actually in some manual somewhere, I'm not sure what you'ld make of it.  If the project was declassified, then I suppose that stuff might get through, as long as it was purged of any intel gathering capabilities or methods.

INTERVIEWER>  But you would say that if the project has not been declassified, no one is lawfully releasing it to the public.

NSA>  I can't see how anyone would be, so yes.  That's right.

INTERVIEWER>  Ok, if you would.  Please click on the link to "comments" on the page and scroll all the way to the bottom.

NSA> Ok.  What am I looking at?

INTERVIEWER>  Just the comment at the end.  The reaction by the old colonel to being shown the stuff about the alien planet.  See what I'm talking about?

NSA>  Yeah.  Ok.

INTERVIEWER>  How do you assess the reaction of the old colonel?  Is this a permissible reaction?  Or should he have denied having any knowledge of the project?

NSA>  If this is true and the guy is acknowledging the truth of classified material, then he's in breach of his clearance.

INTERVIEWER>  So how should he have reacted?

NSA>  He should have looked at it and when he recognized that there was currently classified information on the page, he should have just said nothing or that he didn't know anything about it.  If he was told that the material had been declassified, he should have checked to make sure, before saying anything at all.  People get informed when they are released from a secrecy obligation.  It's not automatic that because something gets declassified that the people who worked on the project are free to talk about it.  They may still hold information that has not been declassified.

INTERVIEWER>  Ok, now.  Realistically.  Is this scenario plausible?

NSA>  Sure.  It happens all the time.  Old vets like to tell their stories at some point.  That's why we try to declassify things as quickly as we can.  But we find out about a lot of guys who told stories they shouldn't have told.

INTERVIEWER>  What do you do then?

NSA>  I honestly don't know exactly.  That's something that the agency who cleared the person is responsible for.  Sometimes, I think, they get a letter or a visit from someone reminding them and their families that the information they have remains classified.  Sometimes they've cleared family members.  I know that happened once when a guy got Alzheimer's and started telling details of things he'd done while in the Army.  I heard they assigned a nurse to him and cleared his immediate family members.  I suppose it was either that, or the guy would have had to have had a censor with him at all time [laughs].

INTERVIEWER>  Thanks.  I know I've taken up more of your time than I'd planned.  Before I let you go, though, do you have any other thoughts about this whole thing?

NSA>  Yeah.  You can't get in trouble for releasing a made up story and saying it's classified.  But I'm interested to see whether there are any unclassified documents out there that these guys are using.  I'm definitely going to read the whole thing tonight.  It looks cool.  I'd send from FOIA requests out, asking about this Project Serpo.  You might also search [redacted], since sometimes [redacted].

INTERVIEWER>  Cool.  If you want to read more about it, I'll be posting this on a website called Abovetopsecret.com.  Look on the discussion board under the UFO and Aliens section.

NSA>  Neat.  I'll check it out.

INTERVIEWER>  Hey.  Thanks a lot for your time.  I appreciate your expertise on this.  If I can ever help you out, please give me a call.

NSA>  Ok, thanks.

INTERVIEWER>  Should I send my transcript to your email?

NSA>  Oh.  Yes.  Please.  I'll get it okayed and be in touch.  What's your email, just in case I need it?

INTERVIEWER>  You have it on the email I sent you just now.  But it's _____.  My contact info should be in the signature of that email, too.

NSA>  Yeah.  Got it.  Ok.

INTERVIEWER>  Thanks again.  Take care.

NSA>  Sure thing.  Bye.

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